question

[mmegaera]

Why do some people insist that other people's gut feelings are wrong? Not different, but wrong?

Esp. after having it explained that while the brain understands why the intention of the subject in question may not have been what it feels like, the gut just -- doesn't?

It's like telling someone their opinion is wrong. Facts are one thing, and can be right or wrong. But opinions are just different from each other, even if they're radically unacceptable to the other side.

Oh, Bujold list, sometimes I'd like to squeeze your little throat until something pops loose.

Comments

[cynthia1960]

Hm, when this kind of stuff comes up, I do not miss the list at all.

[mmegaera]

I really enjoy the list 99% of the time, but then I'm very good at skimming and reading fast. I'd miss it if I dropped it -- I've made too many good friends there.

[cynthia1960]

When RealLife attacked, reading the list in detail fell off my map. I do agree that I've made a lot of good friends there, and a bunch of them are on my reading/friends lists. Is it worth going back for the recent Ivan stuff? I still get the digests.

[mmegaera]

There's been a lot of good CVA discussion on the list, but the signal/noise (for values of noise equal to anything non-CVA) ratio is not as good now as it was for a while. And the volume right now is also very high, FWTW.

[cleverthylacine]

you took the words right out of my mouth, omg!

[mmegaera]

Well, like I told Cynthia, I've made a lot of friends there, so I would miss it if I left. But to each hir own.

[bluerosenz]

I got quite stroppy about the pizza not being a pie thing so I know just how you feel.

There are definately some very parochial and ...... contained... approaches to life and experiences outside some peoples personal knowledge, thats for sure.

[mmegaera]

Agreed. Emphatically.

If my gut tells me Sayers was a "look how smart I am for including all these foreign languages and quotations" writer, and it turns me off of her, that's not wrong. It's my opinion, dammit. Esp. as it ticks me off because I really like her characters and stories otherwise.

Anyway [g].

[cleverthylacine]

wait, this was about a MATTER OF TASTE?

o.
m.
g.

I don't even.

(I killfiled Paula within a year of joining that list.)

[mmegaera]

Yes, it was. But Paula, for once, was not the culprit. It was a relative newbie who doesn't quite understand yet that he doesn't get to be the sole arbiter of taste and font of knowledge on the list. I think he can be taught (various listees are giving him the usual treatment for the problem), but if he can't, he'll be gone soon [eg].

I've killfiled Paula off and on over the years. ATM I've got her blocked.

[cleverthylacine]

I just don't understand the mentality behind arguing with people about matters of taste. There's no way you can win that debate. No matter how much you extol the virtues of the thing you love (or deprecate the flaws of the thing you hate) you will not make someone else begin to enjoy it or stop enjoying it. The best thing you can hope for is that the other person will say that your specific factual points may be true, but they still do/don't like this thing. (For example, "Yes, Twilight is problematic, but I still enjoyed the hell out of it," or "I know dark chocolate is more nutritious, but I still prefer the taste of white chocolate and Dutch process milk, because I have a limited tolerance for bitter.")

I know you know this already, LOL. I'm just...still pretty boggled by this behaviour.

I think I have a much lower tolerance for limited social skills of this kind than I used to have. Or possibly I'm just tired of dealing with people who actually attempt to tell me that I must defend my tastes or lack thereof.

[mmegaera]

Well, I finally threw up my hands and told him "You just keep thinking, Butch, that's what you're good at," and he didn't respond back [g].

I don't know if that counts as having the last word or not, but it did it for me...

[nishatalitha]

Agree. People stating "I can see your point, but that's not my gut reaction" does not seem to be working. *sigh* We're all entitled to our opinions.

...I've been doing a lot of skimming, especially since I haven't read CVA yet.

[mmegaera]

I do wonder sometimes if the reason John decided to leap down my throat instead of Paula's (for at least one of her many unpopular points of view) is because he's less afraid of me than of her [g].

Oh, and you have such a wonderful experience still ahead of you...

[nishatalitha]

I suspect you're right about the fear factor. You're a nice person, and Paula can be quite intimidating—these things can make a difference for the wrong reasons as well as the right.

I'm looking forward to reading it so much. And then to reading the 200+ threads I have stored away in my Bujuold Spoilers folder.

[mmegaera]

Being nice ain't all it's cracked up to be [g].

This is the first time I haven't had to have a Bujold Spoilers folder. I feel quite spoiled myself.

Well...

[ysabetwordsmith]

It varies, including ...

1) They've had their own instincts obliterated by other people's declarations so much they don't realize it's a problem to do that.

2) They think theirs is the One True Right And Only Way.

3) Very occasionally people have instincts that are consistently wrong. That's an observable effect. One might point it out in hopes of avoiding future mishaps based on wrong instincts.

Re: Well...

[mmegaera]

I suspect John's problem is #2. And one iteration of #3 just in case was plenty. By the time he did it four times I had just about had enough.

Re: Well...

[ysabetwordsmith]

Handling #3 without being a dick requires great delicacy. Few people can manage that.

Re: Well...

[mmegaera]

Good point. And it's not like the subject was one in which any damage was going to be done if the instinct (really more of an opinion, which can differ but not really be wrong, even if it's misguided beyond all redemption, which this wasn't -- er, sorry) was wrong in the first place.

Re: Well...

[cleverthylacine]

In regard to point #3, when tempted to point out this effect, it's always advisable to consider whether or not this person's bad instincts affect you or your life in any way. If the answer is no, it isn't your business how awful their instincts are, and treading lightly if at all (asking if they'd like advice first, maybe) is a good idea--you can't help people by invading their boundaries, it makes them defensive.

Re: Well...

[ysabetwordsmith]

Oh, I spend a lot of time ignoring other people's foolish mistakes and badly tuned instincts that don't directly affect me. Frequently I ignore even the ones that do because, fuck it, not worth the grief I get for speaking truths that nobody ever wants to hear. I only tend to speak up when it's driving me nuts.